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The Inaugural Q&A Forum

The event name was the "Q&A Community Forum, For the Three Brothers Villages", on Saturday, April 16^th, 11am at the Johns River Community Hall.

- 11am:  Forum Opened and Introductions Made -

Forum Convenor David Shepard introduced the assembled 91 community members from the Three Brothers villages to the panel and to the moderator Glen Ferrero.  After giving an overview of the flow of the forum, safety information, and the availability of light refreshments at the hall canteen of course, Glen paid respect "to the Elders of the Biripi both past and present on whose land we meet today".

The tremendous responses on the internet were noted and all were thanked for the over 80 submissions posted online before the forum.

The Village Plan at Johns River

The first speaker was Chris Bawn, Vice-President of the Progress Association speaking of how the association was formed in 2007 to take local issues to Council, and of course at the time, to the RTA about ongoing bypass construction issues during the bypass and post-bypass as well.   He highlighted that "Johns River needs the services to attract people to come in off the highway", and that  "We designed the Village Plan, and then asked Council and the RTA to help us".

"The Village Plan was adopted by Council in March 2009", he continued highlighting the playground, and now the first of many boardwalk segments, recently completed by Council with federal funding.

Public Toilets Needed Now

"The most important project at this stage is a set of public toilets for the village.  Unless people can stop and go to the toilet, they'll probably go to the next set of toilets, and finding a clean set of toilets is really hard.  We look forward to having those at the end of the year".

Glen then highlighted the fact, as submitted by many community members in their questions, stating that "It seems that, if you're travelling south along the Pacific Highway from Kempsey, until north of Nabiac, there are no public toilets".

He then asked the RTA Pacific Highway General Manager Bob Higgins, whether the RTA might be able to lend some concrete from the Stills Road batch plant, for a toilet block project in Johns River.

Mr. Higgins said that "I can understand where you're coming from, and we did help to fund the Village Plan."   He then queried what the process was going to be for the forum, wondering what was on the list of issues and questions the moderator had, stating "I think we need to understand what is on that list, and what we can do as an organisation, and what we can't do as an organisation."

Glen responded that "yes, each group here do have their own issues, but they really don't know who is responsible for what.  People call up and ask, but get the response from Council that things are an RTA responsibility, only to call the RTA and be told it is a Council responsibility; so, that is what people are being told."   Several in the crowd empathetically applauded Glen's remark.

Moorland Sadly Disappointed

Kevin Williams of the Moorland Community Association (MCA) spoke on behalf of the MCA about issues facing Moorland.   He first thanked the JRCPA and the hall for organising the event, saying "I think they deserve a round of applause", which they indeed did.

"The Moorland Community Association was formed in 2008 due to issues coming out of the construction of the Pacific Highway upgrade," stated Mr. Williams, "We identified a number of issues, and are sadly disappointed on all of those issues and how they've been resolved".

Declining to pose the 20 or so questions already submitted to the panellists by the MCA, he said that "We see no reason why residents should be worse off at the end of the [Pacific Highway construction] process, than at the beginning of the process."

Noise, Division and Job Losses at Issue

Citing examples of how the Moorland community were now less well off, Kevin enumerated, "Firstly, noise.  Many residents of Moorland say they now have a much greater issue with road noise than they had previously."

"It's all very well for the RTA to talk about specific sites where they've done double-glazing, but as we see, we're the only community from Kew to Sydney which does not have the bitumen surfacing that does seem to dampen noise".

"Secondly, we are a community divided by the highway, because we have Moorland and then Moorland South-Coralville, with our school, hall, tennis club, soccer club all on one side, with it being extremely difficult for people to get to there."

"The flyovers at Johns River and Kew have footpaths, but at Forest Road, there is no access for cyclists or pedestrians.  Without any community consultation the planned access road between Forest Road and Moorland was omitted from the plan"

"We'd like to have questions answered in relation to this division of our community.

"Thirdly, we've lost maybe 25 to 30 jobs from Moorland, because of the new highway.  The majority were part-time or casual, ideal for school leavers, parents with child care responsibilities, and now all those jobs have disappeared.

"If we look north or south we would find the same thing in Coopernook and Kew.   The EIS said there would be a bit of a downturn, but clearly there has been a significant loss in opportunities and would like to work with the RTA and Council to resolve this issue.

The Noise at Forest Road

Kevin then handed back to Glen to pose the questions arising from the Moorland issues to the panel, mostly to the RTA representatives Bob Higgins, Bob Handley, and Bob Page.

Glen then highlighted the large number of submissions from the Forest Road residents on the increased road noise, and asked mentioned the noise level tests, saying that "the results of the noise level testing were due to be released in February, but we have members of the community still waiting to hear those results.

"Additionally, in Johns River, we have no sound barrier on the southern side of the overpass, and the noise is being reflected by trucks going under the overpass up towards Station Street and Johns Street residents, because it was left open by the tavern."

"One particular question would be does the RTA have any way to explain to the community why these noise levels are acceptable, and what can be done about it?"

Bob Higgins then replied, "Thanks, and noise is an issue we face on the highway upgrading, and what is faced here is faced among other communities up and down the highway.

"In terms of the noise report, it was promised earlier in the year based on testing done last year.   The RTA is part of an Alliance and we were not happy with the way the report was presented, and now we're at a stage where it has to go to the regulatory agencies.  Once they are satisfied with it, we can release it to the wider community."

Mr. Higgins further stated, that "We need their comments back from a regulatory agency point of view, and then we can present the results to the community."

Glen countered, asking "Why hasn't the RTA kept the community informed of that process?"

"That's a fair question," replied Bob Higgins," and it comes to this issue that it really is the responsibility of the Alliance to provide that [the informing of the community].  So yes, okay, fair comment."

The moderator, Glen, then asked the crowd for further input on the issue of noise levels, which centred on issues with truck noise on the new highway segments, to which Bob Higgins replied, "it's an issue because we as road agencies around Australia have noise issues.  When we build roads there is only so much we can do at the source of the sound.   With engine braking, they've moved to design rules for trucks, and part of that is to get the trucks designed to be quieter.  This changeover is starting to happen but will take time."

"I go to communities and they can actually pick which truck it is."

"Another thing which is happening is noise cameras, basically to identify noisy vehicles, pick them up.   At Mount Eastly there is noise camera already in place, and at Sexton's Hill at Benoora Point, we're looking at bringing in a noise camera during the construction phase to get the message through to trucks to solve the noise issue at the source of the sound."

The Noise Testing Process

"Where is the noise level testing done from, and can we get noise level testing done at different places?" Glen asked.

"We do an Leq average over many hours, and the samples closer to the highway have the higher average noise.  In terms of doing the modelling, we have criteria set by DEC and RTA has its own guidelines as well.  We develop a noise model and come up with certain parameters, and when we do the post-construction noise modelling."

David Shepard added for Mr. Higgins that noise sampling in Johns River was done "at the public school, one at 39 Johns River Road, and also a noise sampling station over at Wharf Road, just across the rail tracks to get the reflected noise off the new bridge".

Will Hagon, Johns River resident and ABC Radio Motoring Correspondent, redirected Mr. Higgins from the floor by mentioning that "Kevin William's question was more about the road surfacing.  The original question was about road surfacing to reduce noise".

Road Resurfacing Not an Option

"Is there something the RTA can do, and is there something the RTA is willing to do?" said Glen.

"People think that when you put a black surface on a road, you get a quieter surface, and that’s not always true.  At Johns River and Kew the open graded asphalt has a porous surface, which in addition to soaking up noise, also soaks up rain.   Whereas a normal asphalt surface doesn't have this open-graded mix to absorb sound.

"On certain concrete roads you can put it on the top, but on others you can't.  If you put a thin asphalt surface over the concrete at Moorland, you'll get that thump-thump-thump sound," he explained, saying that the concrete at Moorland has been already been cut to allow movement of the segments.

In contrast, at Johns River and Kew, Mr. Higgins noted that the concrete is a different high-steel content version, which adds greatly to the cost, but also it's structural strength, allowing it to remain in single long slabs which are not cut.  This then allows the highly porous open-graded asphalt to be laid on top.

Jan Delandro, of the Moorland community then stood up and said "Excuse me, I'm the woman who wrote the complaint about the noise testing, and that I'd talked with the past Roads Minister, who said it was just the noise of the trucks.   But it seems to me, that the logical thing is, that if you have a two-lane road with asphalt on it, you cut down trees, you then put up a four-lane road with concrete on it, and you put bigger trucks and more trucks on it, you just get more noise."

Jan then posed the question," So why didn't they do something initially to stop the noise so we didn't have this problem afterwards?"

Bob Higgins then stated "We have to design and build to guidelines and criteria that are set by the State of NSW, that include standards for noise levels".

Peter Thorpe, also of Moorland and the MCA, then asked "Bob, do I understand it that the concrete substrata at Johns River for instance is designed to put an absorptive layer atop, but it hasn't been designed like that at Moorland, so you can't put an overlay on top?"

"Yes, that's basically right," replied Bob Higgins. "Now, as a result of a noise task force set up from Coffs to Ballina in 2002-2003, what we do when the bypass is close in to a village, is that we evaluate if it's appropriate to do the more expensive absorptive asphalt.

"In Moorland, we did not feel it was appropriate to do it, due to the cost-effectiveness of the issue.  So we can't put the surface on, but we do have to meet the noise criteria which have been set for us.  We will go through a process of architectural treatment of homes where they meet the criteria".

Will Hagon at this point added," In all the new car testing that I do, and tyre testing too, car companies almost universally marvel at the condition of road surfaces in Australia.  They have an enormous problem of feedback into the car of tyre noise on our road surfaces.   They have a greater problem keeping their cars quite in Australia, internally, and presumably externally."

Runway Water Woes at The Lakes

Johns River resident Grant Burley then opined that "Since I've been living up the road for the last ten years there have been twenty road deaths up and down on either side of my gate, and I think the [upgraded] highway has gone along way to improving that, so I will say that.  I've sat on the Motor Accident Board up in Queensland and here, so I know a little bit about that."

Grant then asked about water run-off from the newly upgraded highway corridor along the 1.2 km of his property, a problem shared by three or four properties north on the eastern side of the highway as well.   "It's causing a major safety problem with the airstrip, with water across the runway, especially coming in at night", he continued.  "I've actually taken the RTA up in the helicopter to show them the run-off, and the last letter I got from the RTA basically told me to clean my drains out."

"We've had 280mm rain events in the past, and then I did not have the water on my property that I have now.   It's made our paddocks along the railway almost unusable, in addition to the major safety issue with the airstrip."

Grant then went to outline the culverts and drainage on the western side of the highway which, in his view, are major contributors to focusing and projecting the water flow onto his property.

"My question to you Mr. Higgins, and I'm quite prepared to do it, is whether the RTA is going to take an active approach to fix these issues, or if I have to litigate and get independent hydrology reports and reports on the runway."

"I know of three personal issues with property owners who have issues with drainage, and you're one of them," replied Bob Higgins.  "The Alliance has an obligation to resolve these issues.   We've gone through the process of engaging an independent hydrologist with another property, to make an investigation into it. "

"I'm more than happy to talk with you after this session, and the matter needs to be resolved, right?"

Bob Handley (to the left of Bob Higgins), adds "That particular issue has been allocated to myself and Bob Page, and it's incumbent upon Bob and myself to come and talk to you and to the ARTC.   So if it's okay with you, we'll be the contacts to try and solve that problem."

The moderator Glen says "Thanks very much to the three Bobs for answering that, and thank you too Grant for the question.

The New Mobile Command Bus

"I'm going to move on to some policing issues and thanks very much for the gentleman coming in from the Manning-Great Lakes Command.  We also thank them for bringing the mobile response unit van, so if something is happening in a local area, like a siege or they have some reason to go to a particular location, they basically have their office with them.  Would you have a comment to make on that Superintendant Fehon?"

"Yes, that's true," stated Supt. Paul Fehon, of the Manning-Great Lakes Local Area Command of the NSW Police Force.   "There are multiple uses that we can assign the vehicle to, in addition to sieges, for motor vehicle accidents on the highway, we now have lighting capability there.  In the past, NSW police in this area, we had no capability and had to rely on SES to come out, and now we can be more self-sufficient on the scene.

"We no longer have to put the maps on the car bonnets, since we have whiteboards and communications in the vehicle, in the case of a missing person or in coordination of other emergency services such as fire and ambulance.  That's why we call it a command post bus."

Youth on Motorbikes

"The reason I brought this up, is because there are quite a few murmurs in the region that 'Won't it be great, they can park this van and catch the kids on motorbikes around the village!'".   Glen continued, "In fact, this issue came up five times at least in our pre-submitted questions.

"The problem is that we have unlicensed, underaged, unhelmeted, uninsured, unregistered motorcycles roaring through this village, without mufflers at various times during the day and night.   Since it can take up to two days for the police to get back to us, that's why I asked you about the use of the vehicle".

"Well, if the vehicle alone was going to be the solution, I'm sure someone would get us 22 cardboard cut-outs of the vehicle to set up," said Supt Fehon. "It's really about the police response, and we take very seriously the customer service focus on responding to what your needs are."

"If it's a youth issue or unregistered motorcycles, we have trail bikes and trained officers, and will deploy them if we have the information.   It's not that people aren't complaining, but I do hope they call so it goes on the database from our police assistance line.  You can ring our station and tell them what the issue is on 131 444.  When we look at tasking, we have only 118 police from here to Gloucester, and we have to send them to where the need is.

If you have people riding motorcycles and they do it between 3 and 5pm for example, we'll have someone out here between 2 and 6pm to catch them.   We can at least talk to them and tell them what the result will be if we have to come out and enforce the law, if we know who the person offending is.

"Silly behaviour is not supported, and as we were mentioning with the RTA and the road safety aspect, which goes to these trail bikes as well.  We've had fatalities from people not having the right protection."

Glen interjects, looking out the door of the hall, "Oh!  She's pushing it today!" referring to a village girl pushing her motorbike past the hall and the forum.

"That's twice today," remarked Supt. Fehon.  "I saw her too when I was driving up!"

The crowd laughed and checked out the door to find a red-headed lass pushing her trail bike along the road.

Report All Incidents Please!

"But can I encourage you all to report it and ask for an event number from the officer?  The event number is one of the things where we track how we provide a proper response to the community. "

Sue Malcolm, of Johns River asks "We recently had an incident of a lady who was very ill, driving out of her driveway, and she was held up and was not allowed to proceed, as village youth were blocking the road and rocking her car."

"When she did ring the police the next day, two young policemen came out and asked how many children were involved.   They stated, 'you must realise the police force is run like a business now'"

Paul Fehon interjected that "It might be like that in Sydney, but out here in the country it is a different model altogether."

Sue Malcolm continued, "They recommended that she take out AVOs against the twelve children, ages 8 to 18, in the village.   Can you imagine that?  She would have been laughed out of the court!"

"This is about getting the community behind the issue and getting some members to understand the standards this community expects.  Blocking a car like that is antisocial behaviour, and I can't imagine why it would happen in a village like this.   Our Youth Liaison Officer is the appropriate person to talk to the parents of youth like that, and I'm happy to talk to you here after the forum as well, so we can get that incident looked at."

Noise Can Be Offensive All Day Long

"I wanted to ask about noise pollution, people have parties and others have to get up and go to work.   When the police come out, they just say 'deal with it' – we don't want to cause a hassle, but there are people who need to go to work, and it's the bass of the music which is really loud, and people can't sleep and people get angry."

Inspector Tony Powers, the Duty Officer at Forster stated, "Offensive noise can be 24 hours a day now, not just after 9pm, so one person may find the noise offensive at 10pm, and another may not.   We have to prioritise our calls across the command, and some parties on busy nights unfortunately might get a low priority."

"But generally we do go out to ascertain if it's offensive, and if so, we take action.   If we return after giving notice, we can issue on-the-spot fines, and in extreme cases, we can even take out a warrant."

Local Policing in the Northern Manning

Glen resumes his questions,"In regards to the motorcycles, we've had unregistered motorcycles at ridiculous speeds.   The other question is in regard to local policing – Coopernook, how many are at Coopernook?"

Superintendent Fehon replies, "Because we have to respond to crime across a wide area, we have to provide a first response component by including officers within a cluster so we have the numbers to meet the need within that broad area."

"I'm sorry about the motorcycle noise and unregistered motorcycles, the highway patrol is tasked with highway offenses.  When you call, ask for the Sergeant or Duty Officer, because when these people go out in a car, they have a tasking sheet with them saying where they have to patrol.   We put them in sectors where we know the problems are.

"So when you ring up, ask for the highway patrol supervisor, so your complaint is put on the list.  That way I can personally follow up and find out if it was put on the tasking sheet."

Command Bus at Harrington?

A gentleman from the audience asked, "With the command bus, do you think it might be down at Harrington at Easter?"

"Yes, it was at Harrington last night, as it does have the capability to have our push bikes put in the back.  Our staff doesn't have leave from Easter through Australia Day, so we can activate this bike squad.  The visibility of having them out their on bikes, able to stop and have a conversation, in the caravan parks and camping grounds, is great.

"The small towns and villages are accessible like this with the push bike squad and the new command busses.   When the push bike squad told him not to jump off the Tuncurry bridge, we had an officer there, able to conceal himself and able to address the policing need by fining the person over $600."

Solutions to Hooning on Village Roads

After a question about hoons racing through Moorland on Jericho Road, moderator Glen added that he had a question too about people racing down Johns River Road as well.   Glen asked Councillor Keegan about what road devices could be used to slow traffic going through the bypassed villages.

"You can put in a report to me, requesting that the matter go to our Traffic Committee.  We can't just come out and install traffic calming devices, because it has to be planned.  So step one is the Traffic Committee, step two is monitoring, step three is looking at traffic calming devices, along with costing and other issues."

"Thank you Councillor Keegan," said Glen.  "I was aware that traffic calming devices are part of our village plan, which has been accepted by the RTA and Council."

"No, I didn't say something would happen, I was just saying that would be the end point, the process," replied David Keegan.  "Possibly the problem could be fixed at Moorland South with speed monitoring".

Glen thanked Councillor Keegan and returned the microphone to Nelly Baker, who this time mentioned the speed humps would just annoy people, but that in Holland they have narrowing fences to slow traffic.  Glen expanded on the comment by saying that they'd just removed some similar fences in the Port Macquarie-Hastings area, at Bonny Hills.

Village Plans Adopted -- but Not Implemented

Kevin Williams then picked up on the various Village Plans being adopted by Council, saying that the communities similarly assumed that meant the plans would be implemented by Council as well.

"It raises a broader concern, that while both plans have been approved [for Moorland and Johns River], in last year's budget there was no provision made for any of the recommendations being implemented."

"We're concerned that this year's budget again may be going to the June committee of Council, with no provision to have money put into implementing either plan adopted by Council."

Councillor Keegan responded, that "First of all, the question I answered was not meant to be related to a village plan, it was a matter of public safety if there is an issue.

"As you know the plans have been implemented in stages, with the playground and the boardwalk in Johns River, and funding applications for the toilet block at Coopernook on the foreshore for example.

"I can't tell you which items in the Moorland village plan are coming up for the budget, but the process will be finalised next week."

The Hannam Vale to Waitui Road

Glen then switched to a question from a community member, Mr. Turner from Hannam Vale.   "I know there aren't any Council road guys here today, but we have a very dangerous section of road from Hannam Vale to Waitui, on which go school busses, milk trucks, and quite a number of vehicles.  We've had no confidence that Council will keep any form of maintenance going.    So what do we do about getting some more funding to either fill the roads or follow the maintenance plans you've already put down?"

"Thank you sir," said Glen Ferrero, "And I'd just like to note there were quite a few questions on our website about the road condition between Waitui and Hannam Vale, being in very poor condition.  There are a couple of bed and breakfasts and as an area trying to encourage tourism, why would people come through this beautiful Three Brothers area with the roads in such bad condition?   All they're doing is changing their shock absorbers when they get home from their holidays!  Councillor Keegan?"

On Council Roads and Infrastructure

"Thanks very much for that question.  Roads as you know are a major concern for everyone in this area, but unfortunately, this Council does have one of the largest road networks in relation to its population. "Councillor Keegan continued to explain the current roads situation at Council, saying that "We have 940km of unsealed road, and more than 360km of sealed road, much of which is in very, very poor condition.

"The Percy Allen report was the first step in reforming the processes of Council, which were pretty paltry to say the least.   The critiquing of this Council from the new consultants, the new executive leaders, which is probably one of the worst for infrastructure, for the planning, for the budgeting, for the process of how we fixed our roads."

"So the good news story is that, in the next two years, in the budget, there will be more roads built and repaired than in the previous 12 years."

"The new team leaders and traffic engineers have re-written the rule books.  We now have three executive leaders who are paid about 10% more than previously, saving about $100,000 over having four leaders, and they are on quarterly performance reviews.

"We've invested some of that money getting in GHD, one of the leading road-building companies, and they've re-written the whole book of how we plan our roads, how we build our roads, and how we maintain our roads.

New Changes for Old Roads

Councillor Keegan proceeded to outline how all processes were affected by the new roads program at Council, from core-testing and drainage, to frequency of maintenance, gravel compaction, and grading issues.  "Every step is critiqued, often saving money, and often resulting in better roads as well," concluded David Keegan.

"In terms of your gravel roads, which are in a terrible state of repair, they've just put in a budget request for expansion of the teams, and we'll get rid of what is called the 'dry team', where they just go out and push the gravel back into the middle of the road.  Hopefully, if [the budget request] gets passed, we'll have 'wet teams', where you actually go out and fix the roads properly.   They'll have a decent amount of gravel where they wet it and roll it, and it's scheduled now to be done twice a year."

"So the schedule of maintaining the drains along those roads will also be changed.  As the traffic engineers point out, the three principles of building a decent road are the Three Ds:  Drainage, Drainage and Drainage."

"They've completed a survey of all the gravel quarries in this valley," he continued, noting that teams checked what grade of gravel is available and where it is located, to enable better roads planning and maintenance.

Councillor Keegan invited residents and businesses in the Waitui and Hannam Vale areas to inspect the upcoming schedule of road works which will cover works within the next two years.

"I think you'd mentioned in your press release that our infrastructure backlog is around $142 million, but that is not correct, it is more like $200 million now.   In the next five years we'll be turning the clock back, but up until recently we were falling more and more behind as we were only maintaining about 50% of our roads.   Once they reach a certain point, Grade 8 I think, they need to be completely replaced, which is about a million dollars per kilometre.

"The new traffic engineer only started six to eight weeks ago, so you'll see the fruits of these changes in the coming year.  Definitely."

"Thank you very much Councillor Keegan," said Glen.

Rob Oakeshott is Trekking

Glen then turned to the forum, to state "I just have to make a quick interjection here, in that we have a staff member, Garth Norris, from Rob Oakeshott's office with us today.

"Rob, who is our federal representative, couldn't be here with us, but he has sent a representative for us, today.   Would you like to say a few words?" said Glen, inviting Garth to address the forum.

"Sure, thank you Glen.  My name is Garth Norris; I'm a member of staff at Rob's office, as Glen has told you.  I just want to acknowledge all the members of the panel, and also the Johns River Community Progress Association, and the Moorland Community Association in putting this forum together.

"Rob is currently with a group of local students, trekking through Sandakan, where his grandfather was murdered in the Second World War.   He went there with a couple of other Members of Parliament last week and will return next week.

"I'm here today to listen to the issues which are being raised, and David has already sent through to us the questions from before today.   We will continue to work on some solutions with the associations on the issues which have been raised here today.

"Rob apologises for not being able to be here today," said Garth, concluding his remarks.

"Thank you very much for that Garth," replied Glen, to a round of applause.

No Roads, No Tourism at Waitui

The microphone was then handed over to the third community represented at the forum, Hannam Vale's Sherry Stumm, active on the recreational reserve.

"I just wanted to ask you, Councillor Keegan," Sherry began.  "When you're doing these roads, will there be a priority?    Because I run a business on this same road that Mr. Turner is talking about.  Do you ever correspond with the tourism board?   I pay $250 as part of the tourism partnership, yet I have people coming to my B&B saying that they will not come back because of the road condition!

"For twelve years I've heard this from you, that you've got 940km of roads, I've heard this over and over and over again!"

Councillor Keegan replies, "Thank you, thank you.  I can tell you that in terms of the Hannam Vale to Waitui road, I raised this matter with the General Manager yesterday.

"The response was that they're organising a report whereby the tourism coordinator on the board are going to review the situation related to tourism promotion of the Hannam Vale and Waitui area.   That will be incorporating Council funds and tourism partner dollars, as well as looking to lobby state and federal governments to set up a plan of management for Hannam Vale and Waitui.

"All of the questions submitted from this forum were forwarded on to the General Manager, and I have here a response to each of those.  Tourism are preparing a report for you, and hopefully you will hear in the near future," stated David Keegan, concluding his response.

Leslie on Infrastructure Funding

"I believe you wanted to say something also with regard to local roads Leslie?"  queried Glen to Port Macquarie's new National Party MP for Port Macquarie.

"Yes, I was just going to make a comment and to acknowledge Doctor Keegan's comments about the backlog for the Greater Taree City Council, and the expanse of roads and bridges which they have to look after," Leslie Williams began.

"One of the things that the Liberal-Nationals in government will do is that we made a commitment before the election – it still stands.  When we acknowledge the huge asset base which local councils have to manage, I have to say that Greater Taree is not much different from many councils, particularly in regional New South Wales in terms of the backlog of maintenance on local roads.

"We are going to put aside up to one billion dollar for local councils to access funds at a very low interest rate.   This is so they can specifically work on reducing their infrastructure backlogs, things like repairing potholes and doing resurfacing.

"We want to work very closely with local councils, and I am meeting with the Greater Taree City Council Mayor and General Manager next week.   I will be talking to them about how the can access that funding."

"Thank you very much Leslie," remarked moderator Glen Ferrero,

Grand-standing at Hannam Vale

Glen continued, "While you have the microphone Leslie – don't hang up – I have a question here submitted from the Hannam Vale community."

He posed the question on their behalf, "'Will Leslie Williams visit Hannam Vale to help us built a new grandstand in our multi-purpose sports ground?'  This is also known as the Hannam Vale Recreational Reserve.  Would you be willing to meet with the local association out there and help them with some of their funding needs Leslie?"

"One of things I'm planning to do in the next two or three months – unfortunately we are still very much in the transition period – but once we have our sitting days in our diary, is to do electorate tours, not just once, but on a regular basis.

"I will basically bring my electorate office to the smaller communities, and they will be made aware of this through personal letters, notices, flyers and so on.   We will come to you, and you can either make appointments to address particular local issues to myself or to my staff.

"We will visit Hannam Vale in that manner, as well as all the small communities, from Harrington to Johns River, Moorland and others.  Because we want to hear from you first-hand as to what your local issues are, and we want to meet with community groups on how to access funding.

Leslie on Progress and Post Offices

"I would like to congratulate David Shepard and the team from the Progress Association.   I guess my political career started with the local Lake Cathie Progress Association, where I was president and held several positions.

"It's an absolute credit to you David to get this meeting up and running, and I absolutely applaud communities such as yours which are proactive and making sure that things get done.   I'm really looking forward to working with you all in the near future."

"Thank you very much Leslie – don't go away yet!"  admonished Glen.  "The question this time is from the Moorland community, and it's about the EPOS system at the local Moorland Post Office.

"You had a meeting with them in November of 2010, and they're wondering if there has been any movement on [getting an EPOS machine]?"

"Yes, sure, I did talk to the licensee there," replied Mrs. Williams.  "In terms of local post offices, as many of you may or may not know, I owned a local post office very similar to Moorland.

"I'm very much aware of the issues which go along with EPOS, and I have raised this with my federal colleagues, but this is something I will follow-up on, although it does come more under the federal banner.

"But I can say it, within these walls, that [remark flagged by speaker as in-confidence - Ed.].  So certainly, we will follow that up and will meet with the licensees of the Moorland Post Office again."

"Leslie, thank you," said the moderator.  "And another thing which came up, and this is not particularly for you Leslie, although we may be looking for some funding to get some road signs done … " he winked at the Member for Port Macquarie.

Signage for Bypassed Businesses

"This next matter is about road signage for bypassed businesses," continued Glen,"and I know that Hannam Vale also has issues about road signage for their community from the northern approach.

"There is a very big question about why is that so, that there is only one sign on the highway at Moorland, when in fact there are two roads which converge to go there.  Was that a decision made lightly?  Or is it something where Hannam Vale can meet with people and get the issue resolved?    Bob Page [RTA Project Manager], would you like to respond? "

"Yes, we've taken that on-board,"said Mr. Page.  "There is an opportunity to erect a separate sign to the advance direction sign which at the moment only announces Johns River – Next Exit.

"There's been a similar one erected up at Kew for Comboyne and Kendall Use Kew Exit, so we have the opportunity to erect a sign, as long as it does not create a great objection within the RTA hierarchy, or any objection from Council by directing extra traffic onto their local roads."

"Can't it be for both Hannam Vale and Stewarts River?"  interjected Sherry Stumm of Hannam Vale.

"Basically Bob, you've got 'Johns River – Next Exit'; just stick 'Hannam Vale' underneath it," opined Chris Bawn.

"They're looking at rectifying the issue, they know that it's an issue," added Glen Ferrero in response to a few cries from the forum audience.

Tourism Nightmare:  No National Parks Access

Local Australia Post contractor Frank Lauder remarked,"Sherry made the point about the tourism in relation to our local roads, which are disgraceful, but time after time I see people following the signs to Coorabakh National Park and Big Nellie.   Cars go through Hannam Vale, hit the dirt, go another 500 metres, and they take one look at the condition of the road, and they turn around.

"Something needs to be done David [Keegan], and something needs to be done soon."

"While you’re here Leslie, I might possibly put you on the spot," began Councillor Keegan in his response.  "I know that in Hannam Vale and Waitui we have a major problem, but if you look up to the plateau, Marlee and Duff's bridges, when they went out, we couldn't get an ambulance or a bus across there.

"We were looking at about six to eight million dollars, and there were some funding promises made for Marlee and Duff. For Wollongbar Road which is of major economic importance because of all the B-double trucks coming across the range to the Wingham abattoir, there were also funding promises made [by the State government].

"Now there were promises made there," Cr. Keegan continued,"So let's make sure we all hold Leslie, who I'm sure will do here best … "

"It's Steve, Steve Bromhead there", added Leslie, referring to the National Party Member where the Wollongbar road is.

"… yes, we have to make sure that Steve Bromhead, and the other Nationals," continued David,"And maybe Leslie can pass on to her colleagues, because we have part of Cowper … "

"It's Oxley", corrects Leslie.

" … Part of Oxley, and Myall Lakes [in the GTCC area], and if we get that money, which totals about $8 million, we'll have more money to do these other things," he state, referring to the upgrading of the Hannam Vale – Waitui road presumably. "If we don't get that [State] money, the whole road budget will be put back about three or four years."

Un-Paving Our Roads

Ashley in the forum audience, owner of the Hannam Vale shop, stands to ask "What would it cost you to seal two to 2.5 km of gravel road?", referring to the segment from Hannam Vale to Waitui.

Replying, Cr. Keegan says that "Bitumen?  Sorry?  That is so far left-field that our situation is so bad that we're more thinking about ripping up roads and turning them back to gravel.   It costs approximately $1.2 million to $1.5 million per kilometre, depending on drainage and sub-soil condition, all these factors."

"So, I don't think that at present we're planning on resealing any roads," concluded Cr. Keegan.

Stealing 'Johns River' Off the Map!

Chris Bawn then handed the audience microphone over to a gentleman from Johns River.   "Hello, my name is Philip Stafford from Lake Ekala Nurra.  Before the highway bypass, we were known as 'Lot 28, Johns River', but we received a letter saying that we are now on the 'Pacific Highway, Coralville'.   We get up to 100 guests at a time, and they have no way of finding us, they can't put the Coralville address of 20190 Pacific Highway into their GPS, because there simply is no such place.  We can't put signage up, as we've applied to Council to put up signage to let motorists know where our establishment is.

"There are no RTA signs even indicating that they've reached something called 'Coralville', or that 'Coralville' really exists!   I'd like to know what can be done about signage actually showing where we are."  he concluded his remarks.

Tourism Signage Being Liberalised

"It was only in the last two weeks that Council held a workshop in which we were shown an example of signage for B&Bs.   We're looking into liberalising the rules for signage in conjunction with our tourism coordinator," replied Councillor Keegan.  "Obviously there are issues related to visual impact and with distraction of drivers, and whether signage might block views et cetera.

"But we are undertaking a review of actually improving tourism signage.   If you all, be it B&B operators at Waitui, Stewarts River or wherever, send me a letter about your issues, and I will make sure your specific examples are raised.

"We are looking to improve our tourism signage, because the economic benefits of tourism to this valley are extremely important."

Stopping the Cost-Shifting

"Just to let everyone know," announced the moderator, Glen, continuing to say that "Questions submitted are online [at  johnsriver.com.au/questions], and all questions posed in the forum will be sent to the panellists.  David Shepard, did you have a question?"

"Yes, " replied David, standing for the audience.  "This is an issue common to all communities which have been bypassed.  There is something called 'cost-shifting', and that is basically when the State government dumps something onto Council, and it may or may not be funded."

He continued, "The cost-shifting has occurred because the past state government refused to allow our local government to have any rate rises.  The Labor government's Minister for Local Government, Barbara Perry, just didn't let the Greater Taree City Council off the hook with being able to raise rates.   The RTA dumps, for example around Johns River, around 15km of new roads onto the books.

"Now, as Councillor Keegan has just said, it costs a heck of a lot of money to maintain roads like that, and yet, the RTA does not actually provide the Council with ongoing funding.  Leslie Williams did just say that the State government is setting up an infrastructure fund, and that is money to go from the state to councils for spending on infrastructure.

"The real question here is whether or not this new fund, or any other provision from the state, is going to take care of our local councils, either by letting us have rate-rises, or by actually not dumping roads onto us without providing ongoing funding.

"The RTA, when they dump the roads onto Council," says David, then turning to the three RTA panellists, saying "Excuse me for using the word 'dump', it's not very fair perhaps – but it is appropriate here."

"Yes, your language is appalling!", chides Glen Ferrero to much amusement of the crowd.

"So where is the cash, State?" asks David at last.

Handover Impasse Between Council and RTA

Councillor Keegan asks of the moderator, "If I could please add a supplementary to the question before the RTA answers?" to which Glen acquiesces.   Keegan continues, "Negotiations are being undertaken between the Council and the RTA vis-à-vis the many kilometres of road at Moorland.  I won't use the term that they're using in this report by the Council officers, but it is about a ten-fold order of magnitude difference between what they [the RTA] are offering us, and what we need.

"So you're saying there is a very large gap between what Council needs, and what is being offered by the RTA?" asks David Shepard.

"Yes, it's a ten-fold difference at just Moorland," replies Councillor Keegan.

"That's incredible, just incredible." retorts Mr. Shepard.  "Mr. Higgins."

"Wow, it's all sort of headed one-way here," says Bob Higgins, opening his reply to the long lead-in and supplementary questions.  "In terms of the highway upgrade, we have budgets set-aside as part of the handover process.

"Yes, there is a difficulty, because there is a difference of view.  One party has a higher view than the other.  In terms of us, we have guidelines.  With the current arrangements, we could just hand them over without any funding.

"But we do recognize that there is a need to do something, and there is funding to get sections of the bypassed roads up to local-amenity type standards.   Bob [Page] and his teams are heading these discussions. It all comes down to what all the experts as to what is that figure, in terms of ongoing maintenance of the bypassed road segments.  That's where the discussions are at this stage."

"Do you feel that your 'regional roads' definition may be a bit narrow at time? "  asked David Shepard to Bob Higgins.  "I mean, obviously here, we're fishing for ongoing funding – is that something you could look at from a policy standpoint so local councils could get the assistance they need to maintain these roads under a regional roads designation?"

"We are looking at those, and another thing in this particular section, are these new local roads which have come about as part of the rationalization of intersections and the like, " replied Bob Higgins.  "So we're going through a process to see if we can provide some further funding for these short sections of road, out of the project budget that we've got.

"Negotiations at this stage have stalled to be fair, and we've had a meeting in March to see if we could get them going again.  So we have got the negotiations going again, which is great, and we are hoping to meet again in May to resolve the issue.

"But it will need a willingness from both of us to try and get this matter resolved."

"Thank you Bob," Glen said.

"Just one question for Councillor Keegan and Bob Higgins of the RTA, " asked Johns River Progress Association Vice-President Chris Bawn, "The hand over from RTA to Council hasn't happened as yet?  Is that right?"

"With respect to the roads, no, but negotiations have started, but the positions are very very wide apart," replied Councillor Keegan.

Mowing, Weeding and Landscaping

"But in the meantime," countered Chris Bawn, "There were a couple of questions, one from Johns River, one from Moorland, about the state of the roads, the weeds are just going berserk!"

"It's been about 9 months since I've driven on a few of these roads, I've been through Hannam Vale, Waitui, Stewart's River – I missed the Stewarts River sign because it was so overgrown.  Moorland is in a terrible state, but up and around the roundabout, the maintenance is clearly RTA, that's my understanding."

Bob Higgins replies, "In terms of the road, it's still RTA until it's handed over, but there is highway corridors where there is a Council responsibility, as well as the road which is ours.   Our responsibility is the immediate road surface.  Once you move outside of that, it becomes Council responsibility.

"In terms of the new works and roundabouts, there is a little bit of a grey area which pops up between the Alliance's responsibilities, and the RTA's responsibilities.  Because there is a handover arrangement which they  [the Alliance] must do as part of that.

"Because of the issues raised by a number of residents, the RTA has a responsibility to move in and do mowing.  So that point has been taken.   In terms of the Alliance's ongoing responsibility to ensure that landscaping is established, the role of Bob [Page] and Bob [Handley] here, is to work those responsibilities through.

"Our job is to sit down and sort out who's responsibility these things are," surmised Bob.

"Some of the frustration of the community," said Glen, "comes from people saying, 'oh, it's not our responsibility, it's someone else's', and I think that's what the feeling in the room might be.  They're being told that these issues of landscaping are 'somebody else's responsibility' all of the time."

Bob Higgins replied, "To clarify that, and without putting Bob Page on the spot, it is his responsibility to sort out the responsibility issues."

"Okay, good, thank you for that," replied Glen.

Glen announced, "We will be taking our lunch break now, we've been going for one hour and forty-five minutes, and I'd like to give our panellists a chance for a break."

"Our command post vehicle will be open during the break," said Superintendant Paul Fehon, "so people can come and have a look during their lunch."

"Thanks very much for that Superintendent!", replied Glen.

- Lunch Break at 12:45pm -

The panellists talked with the assembled audience during the lunch break, where trays of assorted sandwiches, scones with jam and cream, and pies and sausage rolls were served on trays to the guests, all hosted by the hall committee and the progress association.

Many in the audience took the opportunity to deal with their personal issues with their elected representatives and department staff alike.    The police van was a big hit, with many going through and seeing the new mobile command facilities.

- The Forum Resumed at 1:15pm -

A Post-Lunch Summary

Moderator Glen Ferrero corralled all the folks still munching on their sandwiches and scones, and empanelled the dignitaries with aplomb. He reopened the forum, with the first question of the second session, saying  "The hall, as you all know, is run by a Trust, and all the funds we raise go to the upkeep and the maintenance of the hall.  They don't get any money from Council for it – just quickly, "said Glen, nodding at Councillor Keegan, as a ripple of laughter went through the forum.  "Sorry Councillor Keegan.  You may also have noted our new playground – that was well done also, from state and federal funding."

Glen then showed the assembled audience a rough map on the whiteboard of where the discussion had led so far, centring on road issues, economic development, tourism, landscaping, signage and youth issues as well.

On the Verge of Volunteering

He continued, highlighting a new issue, that "It's interesting that if we want to look after our own verges on the road, we are not encouraged to do that.  We are told as a community that we not supposed to be on the roadside verges cleaning up our own areas.

"It's an interesting concept, and I do know that Council has started a process whereby they will train you as a volunteer, and you'll get your certificate so you can then go an look after roadsides.

"What that means, is that as a community, we will be able to look after our own community spaces.  We'll be able to more easily clear out our local reserves and maintain our council walkways.   I think it's a great move forward – the old 355 committee wasn't great for cost reasons – and the new volunteer program can't work everywhere, but in places with a good volunteer base, it's a great way for youth and community members to have something meaningful to do."

Councillor Keegan agreed that "There is a push to expand what you're talking about.  When you're talking about roadside verges, where I live, most residents do mow and keep care of their verges.  There are protocols in place, in fact, when my wife had a windscreen smashed by someone mowing the verge, they were covered by the Council insurance policy.  So, they're looking at expansion, yes."

"Frankly Councillor Keegan," added Glen, "We were talking more about clearing the drains out in front of Koolyangarra Reserve …"

"Yes," responded David Keegan, "That is currently up for a policy review, yes, we're planning on expanding that program."

The Highway Signs to Hannam Vale

A gentleman in the audience stands to speak.  "My name is Ashley Mison, and I own the Hannam Vale store, and there is not sign coming north at Moorland saying Hannam Vale.   There's nothing on this end [the northern end] either as you'd know.  In addition to our store which has food, the  local accommodation, should be signposted as well.

"We've had bookings for people in busses and they've gone up the other way and missed the whole village due to the poor signposting.  They used to have an exit sign for Hannam Vale on the highway, where is it now?" Ashley concludes his remarks and question.

"Someone from the RTA," directs Glen.  "Bob?"

Bob Higgins responds, that "Yes, we do have guidelines which govern these signs, and if we don't put it on the guide sign, and we've done this in other cases, where we actually put a little sign up to say 'Hannam Vale – Use Next Exit'.  There are ways around this, and that is what we are going to explore.  I do know the issue has been around for a while, and that is has been raised many times, and elevated;  it's a fairly key issue that I'm hearing.

"The other point is in terms of the service symbol signs, and the Alliance went through a process and determined which ones will go one, and there was a consultation process for this.   But that doesn't mean that the issue is closed.  If you have a copy of the guidelines, you'll understand how they guide which service symbol, be it a fork and knife or whatever, can be used and how to apply."

Peter Thorp of Moorland asks "Since we have signs for wineries, we have a sign for Moorland Orange Juice?"

"I think we need to go to the guidelines, and I do understand where you're coming from.  We do have guidelines for wineries, and we're not allowing them on the main motorways.  I just don't know the answer," replies Bob Higgins.

Lake Ekala Nurra -- In Coralville?

Alistair from Lake Ekala Nurra stands to ask "Who took the decision to change our address to 'Coralville'?"

"Thank you Alistair," said Glen.  "So there is a question why Johns River became Coralville.  Can anyone answer that?"

Bob Page says "It's handed over to Council once we transfer the road, and I know that Council has gone around renaming to Johns River Road for example."

Forum Convenor David Shepard adds, "We have lost alot of Johns River to the north and the south, now renamed to Middle Brother and Coralville.  I would very much like these parts of my village back, they're diluting my brand here!"

"So, again, I can only assume that was Council's decision," remarks Bob Page.

"So Coralville on the highway doesn't exist, but we have an address on the highway saying 'Coralville', is that correct?" asks Moderator Glen Ferrero.

"I think Bob is actually right," says Leslie Williams.  "David might be able to enlighten us on that, but it seems to have happen all across the electorate.

"I have people who live on Ocean Drive at Lakewood, who used to have the Laurieton post code, 2443, but now they're part of Kew's.   It's something that I'm in the process of investigating, but clearly it's something across the board."

"Thank you very much Leslie.  Councillor Keegan can you comment on that?" asks Glen.

"I've never heard the specific discussion of when that area went to Coralville, I think it was before I was on Council," replies David Keegan.  "I know my address has changed, as it was measured from Raymond Terrace, but when the locality changes, from Johns River to Coralville, I've never heard any reference within council, but I will certainly find out.   We will pass on the findings to the Moorland and Johns River associations to let you know."

"Thank you Councillor Keegan," said Glen.  "And parts of Johns River have also become 'Middle Brother', in addition to the 'Coralville' naming.

"The 'Middle Brother' designation was done by the Port Macquarie-Hastings Council actually," added David Shepard.

Signage Supplied Less Than Signage Needed

Kevin Williams moves along the discussion, stating, "I was just going to clarify the question on signage, in terms of Bob [Higgins]' dilemma as to which was which.  We do have the guidelines, and the brown signage referred to are included in the TASAC guidelines, and we have a copy of those here if everyone wants to have a look at those.   We can't really blame the RTA for those, it's a different but related body that's national.

"I do have a question, because as you can see from the various businesses, that signage is important to people.  You have minimal signage meeting your requirements, but you can easily tell by all the ad-hoc signage people put up and down the highway that you are clearly not meeting the needs of businesses.

"It is great to see that Councillor Keegan will be discussing this issue with the Tourism Manager, but our information is that signage is no longer a permitted use in the Rural 1 zone, under the new LEP following the state template.

"So, in fact, we have a major problem in that Council cannot even consider a DA for signage.  Everyone excepts, including the Department of Planning in Sydney, that it's an issue which just 'fell through the cracks'.   We'd like both Council and State governments to look into this issue."

"Bravo!" shouts a member from the crowd, to very enthusiastic applause.

"Thank you very much," said Glen, adding "JoAnne, you had something to add?"

"Yes, there is no signage indicating that the U-Turn bays can take you back to Johns River or Moorland for example.   Once you've missed the exit, you have no signage saying that the U-turn facility will return you to the community you accidentally bypassed."

"That actually affect the viability of the businesses in those villages, and people are basically lost.  When the highway first opened, I couldn't get to Riddles Brush road because the destinations weren't listed on the U-turn bays", concluded JoAnne Godwin.

The New Location Markers

Donna Bayliss then posed the question that "The RTA ran a big competition about signage on the main highway, and we haven't heard anything about it!"

Bob Higgins replies, "Where we are now with the Location Markers, which was started under the previous Minister [for Roads], is that we did run the competition across Kew, Johns River and Moorland.   The images submitted unfortunately were not in a form where we could put them on the large Location Marker signs.

"There was a panel set up with the previous State Member of Parliament, with Council, an RTA representative, newspaper editors, and local Australians of the year.  We're now having a professional photographer capture images like the Three Brothers and what the villages of Moorland, Johns River, and Kew have got.

"The images will go to the panel to decide which ones will go on the Location Marker signs.  Over the next few weeks, the photographer will be coming out and taking the photos, and returning them to the panel for consideration."

"Well you could have kept us more informed of this process," opined Donna.

"So, yes, communication seems to be a big part of this issue," said Glen in summary.   "Thanks for that Bob."

Tourism Sign for Hannam Vale?

Sherry Stumm then asked, "Doctor Keegan, you spoke on the importance of tourism to our region, yet I'm still waiting for a very big sign for our area which shows our historic shop and Hannam Vale, because Wingham got their sort of historic looking building  [on their sign], and Old Bar was targeted on that $40,000 tourism thing.

"So to your tourism people, when are you going to come north?  I mean, we have the Three Brothers, we have the historic shop, we have a number of really nice looking things which you could put on a very big sign, which you could pay for.   Do you know anything about that?"

In reply, David Keegan spoke to the town entrance signs recently erected by Council, saying that they were excellent value for Council because they were done mostly in-house with the exception of production work by Barrier signs in Taree.   He said the coordination, mapping and images were all done in-house however, and outlined the project and the roll-out of the signage across the Council.

"We looking more at tourism partnerships now to leverage what resources we have," state Councillor Keegan.  "It is a actually a section up for review under our service reviews, that is economic and tourism promotion. So, I can't give you the final answer as yet, but if you have that idea, please forward to me.   Kim Macdonald coordinated this project, and we'd be happy to look at your ideas."

"We're talking about signs out on the highway actually," said Sherry Stumm.

"Oh, those require a DA or omething, I'm not sure about the rules …" said David Keegan.

"I think it's easier to get an erectile dysfunction billboards put up than some of those tourism signs," said Glen, adding,  "Mostly because they're on ARTC rail property, not vulnerable to the RTA objections or Council planning".

The Legendary Pacific Coast

Bob Higgins then outlined how the RTA is adopting the symbols and information displays in rest areas, guided by the material from 'The Legendary Pacific Coast' touring route program, recently initiated by Tourism NSW, with federal input as well.

"When you come into the rest areas, you'll get information on National Parks and local destinations," stated Mr. Higgins.  "You mightn't do the trip this time, but next time you might come in a different way after seeing the information panels."

"We have funding now to put into our rest areas, and in our new rest areas, we're doing this as part of the new construction."

Wards for Taree Council?

A gentleman stood and asked, "Councillor Keegan, I'd be interested to know why there are no wards in Greater Taree City Council.   You're not from here, no offense to you.  Most of the Council are from Old Bar or Wingham, not from around here.  It would be great if we could elect someone to represent us down in the big town of Taree."

"I can't really answer the question of making wards, it would have to go to a referendum, but I have never lived in Taree, except for six months when I first moved here," replied Councillor Keegan of the Greater Taree City Council.

"When you talk about living at Wingham, I think we have two living out that way, we have Councillors from Halliday's point, in Taree and two who live beyond Wingham, one near and one further west.  We have Councillors living out at Brinbin; I live at Pampoola."

"I do travel up this way fairly frequently, and my patients do keep me in touch with issues up this way, from Moorland and Johns River," said Cr. Dr. Keegan.

"I've been to the Moorland Community meeting, when we first suggested that the people of Moorland get together with the Johns River community, who really knew what they were doing.  And that's really empowered Moorland because when communities work together, things suddenly start to get done."

"In Coopernook we've had a lot of tensions with the boardwalk and the toilet block, but hopefully we'll have some positive outcomes in the near future."

"I get probably in the last few weeks, oh, how many e-mails from the JRCPA?", said Councillor Keegan, to much laughter from the other panellists and moderator Glen Ferrero.  "It's on almost a daily basis!"

"That's him, that's him!" laughed Glen, pointing to JRCPA President David Shepard.

"I actually have all those on my work computer, and I get a pop-up every time they come in, from Moorland, and from Joan from Harrington too, so I'm actually quite aware of the situation here and elsewhere in the Three Brothers region."

25 Years of Markets In Trouble

Hall Trust President Chris Bawn then asks of the panellists generally, "We have had markets here for the last 25 years, relying on highway traffic.  This is why we've been trying to build new toilets to keep people coming off the road and using our facilities.

"We've had a huge two-thirds drop in patronage despite heavy advertising, membership program and our own website.  We're doing the right media type of stuff, but it's about attracting the passing traffic on the road.  We are all volunteers, and what you see around you, the new water tanks, the re-guttering, and everything is jeopardised by the fall in patronage.

"About twelve months ago, we approached the RTA for signage for our markets, and we are aware of your signage guidelines of course, we understand those.   But for smaller villages that have a huge impact for economic viability, and for example the new shop here has been opened by Lorri up the back and a massive amount of money spent on it if you haven't been in to it.

As soon as the sign for Rosie's was taken down [by the RTA] on the highway, her patronage dropped from 65 people to 16 people.   It's definite that you need an image on the side of the road to say that 'There's a café where you can get coffee', or 'There are markets once a month'.

The forum spontaneously erupted in strong applause.

"I know this isn't an issue we're going to solve today," continued Chris, "but smaller village all along the corridor which have been bypassed, whether it's the RTA or other state departments, or federal or council, there should be some opportunities for villages where there are only one, two or three businesses, to put up some sort of sign that looks like an RTA sign, is professionally done, and will not detract from what the RTA specifies as corridor signage."

"Thank you Chris," said Glen, asking the panel, "Would anyone like to respond?"

Bob Higgins jumps in, opining that "We have a great opportunity here with these Location Markers, because that's what it was about, was there to try and get that and that's following representations to get some sort of image on those Markers to indicate what that's about.

"Now it's not about – it's about advertising what's here, that there's something here, and that's what it was.  Now, we actually went ahead and sought advice, and I saw some of the responses back, but we didn't get much in submissions, but there's still an opportunity here.

"The question you might ask is that 'Is it the Three Brothers' that needs to go on these, or is it something which might pitch the markets?", posed Bob back to Chris.

Chris replied, "But the idea of this is to advertise something for a village the size of Johns River, not Taree where there are hundreds and hundreds of businesses.  Johns River has basically just the three or four businesses relying on highway trade."

"In terms of what we're doing, this is about 5 metres by 2 metres, and says 'JOHNS RIVER' across the top, has everyone seen this?"  Bob Higgins asked.

"Yes, we saw examples in the Johns River Journal," replied David Shepard.

"But they were looking for one image, weren't they?" interjected Glen, asking David about the competition published in the Journal by the RTA.  "It was just one, single image, wasn't it?"

"Yes, it was just a single image," replied David Shepard.

"There is a question there how you so the images, right?"  said Bob Higgins.  "It could be one image, or it could be a combination of a series of things, instead of one image.  It's about how you open up your mind."

"So the image can't be just 'Rosie's Café, Come and See Us', can it?" asked Chris Bawn.

"No, no, no." replied Bob.

Consolidated Services Signs for Highway Towns

"The issue here, what we're looking for here, is a 'consolidated sign'," David Shepard said to sum up.  "Leslie, if you could possibly talk to [the Roads Minister, the Hon.] Duncan Gay at some point, we'd very much like a consolidated sign for the communities which is very much like what Chris is talking about here.

”Now, under the SEPP 64 regulations, and for those of you aren't familiar, SEPP 64 is the state law which basically says you can't put up signage for your property outside of the RTA corridor, unless it is for a the firm conducting business on that property.

"The RTA also has the right of refusal too for any signage put up along the highway corridor with in a certain distance of the road reserve.  So, as you're driving into Harrington for example, all of those signs up in paddocks there are completely illegal.

"All of these signs are really still up because Council simply does not have the cash for rangers to come around and remove the signs.  And of course, once they start doing that, they have to do it for everyone.  So, you can't really put up a sign anywhere at this point.

"The Location Markers you've mentioned Bob [Higgins] are indeed a great idea, they're going to look fantastic, they've got a professional photographer doing this, which is a real plus.

"However, it's not really going to serve the purpose which Chris is talking about.  On the other hand, if the RTA and the state government open up signage, it's going to be open-slather.  It wouldn't be a very attractive highway, and there would be safety issues, which is why the RTA must be involved in vetting any such signage like that.

"An application process with both Council and the state needs to be set up also," Mr. Shepard continued.

"What we're suggesting here, and what we're asking you to consider, is getting together with the Roads Minister, and having a nice pleasant discussion.    A discussion about possibly permitting community organisations which have already been vetted by the Council and the state, to propose sign content which is easily readable – not too many words obviously – but showing a basic summary of services at that next exit.

"If that could be done in a uniform process across the state, it could possibly fly.   We know you cannot open up RTA corridors to signage willy-nilly, but, a program of that sort, could you possibly consider a program like that?"

The crowd applauds loudly and vociferously the proposal.

"I will take it on board, 'right?"  Bob Higgins replies.  "When I say take it on board, I hear what you're saying, but I can't make a commitment here tonight [sic].  But, or today.  I can't do that.  But I hear what you say."

"We were hoping that the Location Markers, well, I think our previous Minister raised whether or not we could do something, and we were hopeful, that if we could get through these three here, that they could serve as a model, a template, for other villages up and down the highway."

Leslie Williams comes in at this point to state that "One of the key things on my list is not only just to speak to Duncan, David, but actually to get him to do an electorate tour.  It's to get him to focus on the issues of the bypassed towns, because I think he actually needs to see what's happened to some local businesses which have been impacted on, and for him to understand why this is so important.  Once things are settled down, those are my plans in relation to Duncan's visit."

"Thanks very much Leslie," replied Glen.

Double Duty for Location Markers?

Ian from Isaac's Lane stood to ask "There was a sign saying 'Markets this weekend' out there for 25 years.  Why can't that be transferred to the new highway?"

"Well, it's not a legal sign," replied Mrs. Williams, then directing to Bob Higgins,  "Do you want to answer that Bob?"

"Was that question for David [Shepard]?" asked Glen.

Councillor Keegan is passed the microphone, and stated, "No, David [Shepard] has already answered that question.  David just pointed out that on the RTA road corridor, you cannot have those signs within 140 metres of the road without RTA approval, and it's to decrease the distraction of drivers, et cetera.

"I think if we were to use this Location Marker sign, where you have the image of the Three Brothers, or whatever, surely you could also have the service symbols, such as the picture of a café, the markets, and others.

"You have signs up in Byron and Ballina telling you that there are markets on the first, second or third Saturday of the month, so why can't we put that on the Location Marker signs, then why not?"

"I have a feeling that Bob needs to say something," Glen chimed in.

Bob Higgins responded, "I did say earlier that we need to open our minds, because you can normally resolve things if we sit back and watch the issue.  What you're asking is if there is some way of doing these things, and we'll see."

High Speeds on Country Roads

Councillor Keegan was then congratulated by Frank from Hannam Vale for coming, and resigned to the fact that the roads would not be tarred in the near future, he asked that "Since we have 90kph from Johns River to Hannam Vale, and then a sign past Hannam Vale saying that the speed limit is derestricted.

"With log trucks approaching at speeds up to 170kph if they want to, it's not safe on that road," continued Frank.   "Turning onto Isaac's Lane, there is no signage either from the 90kph zone, on a road which is safely travelled at 40kph. It needs to be looked at straight away."

"Taree Council said they would have a 50kph speed limit through built up areas, but here in Johns River and elsewhere, it is 60kph.  We have streetlights and houses, and yet still we are not 50kph."

"I thought this did occur in villages if residential, but I'll check with Leslie on that, since it comes from state rules," said David Keegan, handing over to Leslie Williams.

"Thank you for that question, and it is a real issue, that of speed signs.  It is one I raised with on numerous occasions with the previous Shadow Minister for Roads, Andrew Stoner.  He has made a commitment and I know that Duncan will be abiding by the commitment.

"It's not going to solve your problem in the next two weeks, but we have committed to a state-wide audit of speed signs and speed limits, because we think there are too many changes in speeds.  Between Lake Cathie and Bonnie Hills there is a 70 a 50 a 90 [km zone] within about two or three kilometres.   So that is our commitment, to audit, across the state, speed signs. "

Councillor Keegan spoke then to the inference of Franks question, that he preferred people be slowed down a bit, to which Frank agreed.   Councillor Keegan then posed to Leslie Williams his query, saying "When Mr. Stoner was talking out west, he was saying that it would be safer if people were going faster, so there would be less fatigue.   It was his concern that people with variable speed signs and having to slow down, led to more fatigue.

"It's been proven that the faster you go, the more accidents happen, and that there is a direct correlation.  So I would like to know if this audit will lead to removal of the slow speeds, or whether we will be lowering speed limits for safety."

Councillor Keegan then handed over to Leslie Williams, who stated, "I'm not going to pre-empt what the audit is going to say, but as I said, it's a state-wide audit.  So whether it's on the Newell highway or on the road between Hannam Vale and Waitui, that's what's going to happen."

Policing Country Roads

"I had a supplementary in regard to policing of those roads?" said Glen, querying the panel.

Superintendant Fehon responded that "In regards to the policing of the Pacific Highway, and the highway patrol, they've done an almighty job over the last three years so that we've had zero fatalities in our sector.

"As a local area command, we don't entirely focus on that.  Our 'Operation Back Roads' is supported by the RTA as well, where we do specific targeting of speeds.  As you'd appreciate, we go out to Gloucester along the Buckett's Way, and the Thunderbolt's Way, especially on weekends, people go out on the Oxley on motorbikes, and come back the other way.

"The RTA does a lot of work in relation to monitoring speeds and identifying speeds used in those areas.   We've seen the results and we immediately respond by sending people out there, not just our own people, but also the highway patrol from New England come into our area and we go into theirs as well.  It's the whole length of that road which we target.

"There's a whole range of detections in these areas; unfortunately, it's usually the locals!" he concluded.

"Thanks very much for that Superintendant," said Glen.  "It's nearly two o'clock, so I'm going to call this our last question".  He then yielded Yvonne Murdoch from Heron's Creek, who posed the question, "I was just wondering, signage costs, I was told once that it cost $75 to put up a street sign with the street name.   Now in the regional areas, in your road rules which everyone gets when you go for a license, why can't it be standardised in rural residential areas that a specific speed be set?

If you had this in the rule book, that you can only do a certain speed, why can't you put this on residential rural roads?"

"This will be part of the state-wide audit," replied Leslie.

- 2pm:  Thank You All for Participating! -

"Ladies and Gentlemen," said Glen, wrapping up the forum for the audience, "We've started with roads and we ended with roads, and in between we've discussed youth, economic development, tourism and signage."

"We've worked around some difficulties in regards to communication, and communication between communities and the powers-that-be can sometimes get trapped.  We sit here, expecting to hear news on things which interest us, and on the other side, they are there waiting for our e-mails.  And in between, sometimes we don't get to talk to each other.

"Councillor Keegan comments on the numbers of e-mail he gets from the Johns River Community Progress Association, because we're probably a very vocal group in the GTCC area," said Glen

"Oh, I'm certainly not complaining!", interjects Councillor Keegan.

"Bob Higgins has some letters from our local associations as well I'm quite sure," Glen continues, "And in the future Leslie Williams is going to have a lot from us as well!"

"She's on the list!" chimes in David Shepard.

"And now that we have these names too, they'll be on the list as well, trust me," said Glen, motioning to the panelist placards on the main panel table.

Keeping the Communication Open

"But to keep that communication open, what I'm suggesting, is that we have some very strong representatives here from our communities, and from the powers-that-be.  I feel strongly we need to keep this conversation going – it has to go beyond just today – because otherwise, the communication just falls down and we go nowhere.

"All of the questions that you've asked today here, and the ones which are on the website, these panelists all have access to them.  This forum will be sent to their inboxes so they have what you've said today as well. So you can expect some answers if you've put your questions through.

"I would very much like to take the time to thank everyone individually on the panel.  We've grilled these people for three hours, so  thank you all so much for spending three hours with our communities."

The forum responds with lengthy applause for the panelists.

Associations All Thanked

Leslie Williams added her accolades, saying "Can I just once again congratulate this community?  As someone who has just walked into a new job that deals with a whole range of communities, if every small community had done what you guys have done, well, wow, my job would be so much easier!

"Because I hear in one hit and understand straight away about the majority of issues that you're all dealing with.  Bearing in mind that we've only been in our office for one week, please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any issue.  I note that a number of questions which were directed specifically at me on state issues we hadn't got around to, so I'll make sure I pass them on to David.   So, thank you!"

"Thank you Leslie!", said Glen to a big round of applause, "And I'd also like to thank Jane and Kevin from the Moorland Community Association."  The applause continued throughout the remaining thank-yous, "Sherry from Hannam Vale, thank you very much.  I thanks David Shepard for arranging today, he's done a wonderful job.  He was assisted by Chris Bawn of the Johns River Community Hall and Recreational Reserve Trust.   I'd also like to thanks Wendy and the kitchen staff for such excellent food today as well."

"And lastly," Glen finished, addressing the forum audience, "Without you, nothing changes!"

"And can I just say a big thank you to our moderator today, you did a fantastic job!", from Leslie Williams.

Post-Forum Buzz

The forum closed at 2pm, with a meet and greet afterwards which held most of the panelist for another half hour.

Several community members stayed behind to help stack the chairs and to put away the sound system, complete with three hands-free radio microphones, part of a $3,500 grant from the federal government.

All reports so far are that the audience were very satisfied with the answers, the pace and the quality of the forum, and all have mentioned that it should be done again regularly.

Media Contact:  David Shepard, Convenor
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